UNIT-ON-CHAIN: AOI on ‘In Our Code’, Collecting Digital Art and the Role of the Collector

Unit-on-Chain is a podcast series from Unit London offering a ground for critical discussions for artists and thought leaders from the Web3 ecosystem.

Season 1 of our podcast coincides with In Our Code, a highly-anticipated exhibition of generative and digital art in partnership with AOI, on display from 13 September – 16 October exclusively at Unit London.

For In Our Code, Collecting Digital Art and the Role of the Collector, the first episode of the series, join Abigail Miller, Associate Director of Web3 at Unit London, in conversation with AOI (Art on Internet), on his experience in collecting digital art, role of the collector, and how NFTs have changed the collector and artist dynamics.

LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE on Spotify and Apple.

The Story of Entering the NFT Space

AOI: In the beginning, I wasn’t a believer. I believed in art – I’ve always loved art and design, and really understood the artistic process behind what goes into the pieces. I wasn’t sold on NFTs until I bought my first NFT. It was life changing – straight away the artist reached out and we started chatting. The network effect of digital art is crazy, and I’ve never experienced art like this before. Secondly, the community reached out as well. 

Thirdly, I got hooked. Every day, you could see these communities that surrounded these different artists, and it was just growing and growing. As each artist released new works, the more excited the community became. This was before generative art, before ArtBlocks, and right at the beginning when people were just minting a JPEG or a GIF file.

It was pure in the way that was more about the art – there was no hype, there were no PFPs (profile picture projects), and there was no gamifying purchasing of the NFT. It was just purely art and it was such a pure space.

Changes in the NFT Space from Beginning to Now

AOI: In the beginning, it was very much about art. It was a very pure space and there were two different communities: there were people that dabbled in the world of crypto and, and they collected NFTs because it was just a passion, a hobby. On the other spectrum of crypto, there’s a lot of DeFi (decentralised finance) users who trade alt coins and flip coins to make money. Nowadays, with PFPs or new big drops, you see a big rush of people trying to get on whitelists – they jump through hoops and hurdles to get access to the whitelist and pre-mints.

Back then, if artists created a larger series of work, the value came from collecting the first number 1 to 10 of the particular series. A lot has changed nowadays, as art has become more than just an image or a file. We’re starting to see technology really combine with art and creativity.

That’s where it really spawned this perfect timing between generative art, which came from the 1960s to NFT art, where the artwork is forever on the blockchain. When ArtBlocks was first created the first on-chain artwork, there was a moment where the best of both worlds met. Finally, people that were creating algorithmic art from the 1960s now had this platform that really validates and gives art a monetary value, which never existed in the past.

The Origin of In Our Code

AOI: In Our Code, comes from a passion of mine when generative art combined with on-chain artwork and the ArtBlocks movement. That was a moment in time which really caught my attention. It was the melding of the generative art world with the crypto/DeFi world, and all these different communities coming together. Some of the most crazy collections came out (at that time). In the traditional sense, to create a series of 1000 (artworks) is crazy, to make sure that they all do well, and they all trade well. In the past, I don’t think that’s ever happened.

In Our Code is seeing what has happened in the space, but giving it even more focus. It’s going back to understanding where all this came from; it’s reaching into the past and pulling at the future at the same time. I’m speaking with a lot of incredibly talented artists. There’s always something that resonates, and it’s “how do we use code in a way to create something human.” When a lot of people see generative art they always say, “Hey, I can just do this in Photoshop. It’s so easy, right. I can just put in a filter and boom, it’s done. But, actually to do it in code, to use code, to create things that are very human, or have a lot of soul and spirit to it, I think that’s something that really drew me into In Our Code.

I think that the original name that we talked about, In Our Image and Code, really resonates that a lot of these artists are creating things that are part of themselves. Each artist comes from a different background and a different part of the world. Through their art, you can really feel what their spirit is about.

A lot of these artists’ journeys have been centred around artists who have been creating pieces for a very, very long time. I would love to put an artist’s name into Google and literally just try and track all the way back to the very first body of work. I’ll literally go through from day one all the way until now, and really try and understand what they’re about. This is where their philosophies and ideas come from, or, I see that this particular piece influenced this piece three years later. Seeing that sort of journey and story of what made them, who they are and how the artwork has evolved – that’s the kind of reason why I really wanted to partner with Unit London to create this ongoing show. I think In Our Code’s mission really is to champion and showcase the future of generative art and its effect it will have on our world.

On the Role of Collectors in Web3

AOI: I think as a collector, you should try and help the artists and try pushing the space forward. If you look at the people that were chosen [for the show], we have people from different cultures from all around the world.

I reminisced about this phone call with William [Mapan]. I had a chat with him, he said, “Oh my god, I’m going to meet some of these friends of mine that I’ve actually never met before in real life.” He said, “I know all these guys, they’re all my best friends from the internet, but I’ve never actually met them before in real life.”

I think it’s these real life events and moments where artists meet collectors and collectors meet artists, or even artists meet artists. In essence, In Our Code is probably one of the most beautiful moments ever, because people in the digital space are always online. Your life is in the metaverse or on the internet, and that was part of our name, AOI, or, Art on Internet. I really hope that in the show, these artists will get together and finally meet each other. Finally, they can share a drink together and celebrate what an incredible one and a half years, or the duration of the world of NFTs, that has brought them together.

(Scroll to bottom for full transcript)

AOI ‘Art on Internet’ is an anonymous collector and a foundation for emerging art and technology. Their mission is to promote digital art and make NFTs accessible to a global audience through a permanent collection, metaverse exhibitions, television documentary series as well as a diverse schedule of 1/1 events. AOI collaborates with artists and brands to help create innovative projects that help improve the world.

Abigail: Hi AOI, welcome to Unit-on-Chain. Can you explain what Art on Internet is and what it means?

AOI: We’re a movement for emerging art and technology, and our mission is to elevate digital art and push this space forward. It came about one or two years ago and it came from an appreciation of all things design.

Abigail: Can you give us the story of entering the space one to two years ago? What did it look like back then?

AOI: The very first time I bought an NFT, it was quite an interesting story because I heard about NFTs, I saw a lot of people buy NFTs, and I got curious. People are buying JPEGs for a lot of money. Back then, things were selling for $10,000 to $50,000, and that was huge. Some pieces of artwork were also selling for about a quarter of a million dollars.

I was very intrigued. In the beginning, I wasn’t a believer. I believed in art – I’ve always loved art and design, and really understood the artistic process behind what goes into the pieces. I wasn’t sold on NFTs until I bought my first NFT. It was life changing – straight away the artist reached out and we started chatting. The network effect of digital art is crazy, and I’ve never experienced art like this before. Secondly, the community reached out as well. 

Thirdly, I got hooked. Every day, you could see these communities that surrounded these different artists, and it was just growing and growing. As each artist released new works, the more excited the community became. This was before generative art, before ArtBlocks, and right at the beginning when people were just minting a JPEG or a GIF file.

Abigail: It was the wild west.

AOI: Yes, and it was pure in the way that was more about the art – there was no hype, there were no PFPs (profile picture projects), and there was no gamifying purchasing of the NFT. It was just purely art and it was such a pure space.

Abigail: Who did you first collect? 

AOI: It may have been either Fvckrender or Krista Kim. Fvckrender was one of the first artists that really caught my eye. Back then, when you searched for “NFTs,” there was only a pocketful of artists that everyone was collecting, whether it was Fewocious,  XCOPY, or Pak. These days, you hop on Twitter, you search NFT and it’s just crazy. Whereas a year and a half ago, the community wasn’t that big. When you searched for art on some of the early platforms, like SuperRare or MakersPlace, it was very much a connection that you had between the artwork, yourself, and the artist. Now, everyone’s obsessed over the price of the piece, how many are in the edition, how many were minted, and plans for the PFP projects, instead of the experience between yourself and the artist.

Abigail: What were the biggest changes for you as a collector and artists you see working in the space?

AOI: In the beginning, it was very much about art. It was a very pure space and there were two different communities: there were people that dabbled in the world of crypto and, and they collected NFTs because it was just a passion, a hobby. On the other spectrum of crypto, there’s a lot of DeFi (decentralised finance) users who trade alt coins and flip coins to make money. Nowadays, with PFPs or new big drops, you see a big rush of people trying to get on whitelists – they jump through hoops and hurdles to get access to the whitelist and pre-mints.

Back then, if artists created a larger series of work, the value came from collecting the first number 1 to 10 of the particular series. A lot has changed nowadays, as art has become more than just an image or a file. We’re starting to see technology really combine with art and creativity.

That’s where it really spawned this perfect timing between generative art, which came from the 1960s to NFT art, where the artwork is forever on the blockchain. When ArtBlocks was first created the first on-chain artwork, there was a moment where the best of both worlds met. Finally, people that were creating algorithmic art from the 1960s now had this platform that really validates and gives art a monetary value, which never existed in the past.

Abigail: Before NFTs, were you familiar with generative art?

AOI: I’ve always appreciated generative art, but not on the scale of how it is today. If you look back at collecting objects or art before NFTs, you would have to physically store the piece of art, and physically send it to an auction house. If you wanna speak to that artist, how would you find the artist? The artist probably lives in a remote town in Europe somewhere and back then there was no internet. 

NFTs and blockchain technology have really connected artists and collectors from all around the world. Art is fueled by connectivity, and communication is so instant. You really feel like you’re part of the artist’s journey. And what other art form has Twitter being the dominant type of social network for it? As much as people think that NFTs are just JPEGs that you see, it’s much more than that. It’s really a key into the artist’s world. By owning a piece of NFT, in a way, you own a piece of the artist’s digital life. When an NFT was minted, you know everything is recorded on the blockchain, every single significant series has become a part of history. 

There are NFT collectors called the archeologists of the NFT world. They go back and say, “Hey, what was the first ever NFT project minted on the blockchain?” And they’ll collect that. They’ll go through the whole history of the blockchain to look for what existed that nobody knows, and try to get that first piece of history.

Abigail: What were your first takes of getting into those personal relationships with artists? Can you speak more to how AOI has grown in the last two years?

AOI: When I first got into the space, it was really just about collecting artwork that I loved. I’d scroll and scroll and a particular piece would stop me. Then, I would look at who the artist was. I’d hop on Twitter. I would see how the artist communicates with the community and see how he or she is as a person. It’s very much an experiential thing for me. From that moment, I really wanted to figure out ways to push the space forward. That’s really where AOI came from. Collecting artwork isn’t really quite AOI. I just collected under this brand that I was slowly building. A lot of people in the space are solely focused on collecting – there are people who zone in on one genre of art, and they just focus on that one particular type or genre of art. I love all types of art, especially things that are experiential or really harness technology. I do believe in the next one or two years, a lot of NFTs will evolve to become metaverse-specific NFTs, because just experiencing what is possible in the last, probably one and a half years, you realise that you can put on a VR headset and be transported to the most incredible world possible.

Why not see artwork in the most incredible space you’ve built? With technology expanding, now we’re starting to see NFTs that are almost like applications or softwares in themselves. You can play around with the code which changes the artwork. There are things that use old technology in ways which make it beautiful. One side of NFT is where technology and creativity come together to form the NFT. I think that’s a really unique thing, because for a first-timer, somebody who’s never been interested in NFTs, they really associate NFTs with visual data streaming. Refik Anadol is probably one of the people where people see his work and say “oh, that’s an NFT.” In contrast to a traditional painter or a photographer, who has minted their work as an NFT. I would say that in all those mediums, that’s pushing space forward, I do have a soft spot for NFTs that are created with technology.

Abigail: What are you and the greater brand of AOI working on right now? We can talk about In Our Code also.

AOI: In Our Code, comes from a passion of mine when generative art combined with on-chain artwork and the ArtBlocks movement. That was a moment in time which really caught my attention. It was the melding of the generative art world with the crypto/DeFi world, and all these different communities coming together. Some of the most crazy collections came out (at that time). In the traditional sense, to create a series of 1000 (artworks) is crazy, to make sure that they all do well, and they all trade well. In the past, I don’t think that’s ever happened.

In Our Code is seeing what has happened in the space, but giving it even more focus. It’s going back to understanding where all this came from; it’s reaching into the past and pulling at the future at the same time. I’m speaking with a lot of incredibly talented artists. There’s always something that resonates, and it’s “how do we use code in a way to create something human.” When a lot of people see generative art they always say, “Hey, I can just do this in Photoshop. It’s so easy, right. I can just put in a filter and boom, it’s done. But, actually to do it in code, to use code, to create things that are very human, or have a lot of soul and spirit to it, I think that’s something that really drew me into In Our Code.

I think that the original name that we talked about, In Our Image and Code, really resonates that a lot of these artists are creating things that are part of themselves. Each artist comes from a different background and a different part of the world. Through their art, you can really feel what their spirit is about.

A lot of these artists’ journeys have been centred around artists who have been creating pieces for a very, very long time. I would love to put an artist’s name into Google and literally just try and track all the way back to the very first body of work. I’ll literally go through from day one all the way until now, and really try and understand what they’re about. This is where their philosophies and ideas come from, or, I see that this particular piece influenced this piece three years later. Seeing that sort of journey and story of what made them, who they are and how the artwork has evolved – that’s the kind of reason why I really wanted to partner with Unit London to create this ongoing show. I think In Our Code’s mission really is to champion and showcase the future of generative art and its effect it will have on our world.

Abigail: For our listeners, In Our Code is an exhibition in partnership with AOI that Unit London is putting on in London. The exhibition will be showcasing 11 generative artists. This show specifically is going to focus on the input output relationship of generative art. We will talk about generative art in a second, but AOI, you mentioned a great point. What we plan on doing with In Our Code is to make it a duration exhibition and something that lives beyond just one show.

Something important that we’re highlighting is that we’re taking the generative art movement and really championing that. This came from your ideas and how passionate you have been about all of these artists.

How do you see In Our Code living on past this one show?

AOI: That’s actually what really excites me. This show is in the heart of London and is focused on artwork. What we’re going to work on next is a larger series which takes generative art out of the traditional sense, where you have a display on a wall and make it an experience. This is where a lot of people that aren’t in the Web3 or NFT space don’t really get the chance to experience madness, joy, and wildness that comes from this sort of space.

These components make generative art in particular so exciting and unique. By making it performance based and experiential, the goal is almost like it’s going to a rock concert. We wanted to make it very experiential. We want to make it an event that travels around the world.

Like you said, (we can go to) some of the biggest art events of the year, whether it’s Art Basel or Frieze. We want to make the performance or the act of purchasing and collecting generative art an experience. At the same time, knowing the artists and creating this very exciting experience that doesn’t exist elsewhere and collecting any other art in the world is exciting.

Abigail: Yes, and, we’re super excited to be coming back to the show that opens on September 13th, In Our Code. We specifically want to look at the relationship of input and output.

What does the input/output relationship mean to you? 

AOI: I think that input/output is another distillation of what really goes into the mind. These are incredible artists. If we talk about it in a non-code sense, they’re literally putting their soul through their keyboard, right into lines of code and letting the algorithm really dictate randomness. Once the randomness is created, they go through and choose. The randomness connects directly back to their soul. It is like having trust that the algorithm will give you that feeling that you want to achieve.

The input/output relationship that “I owe the simplicity of the I and the O” is something that is really beautiful. Hopefully, through this series of shows we’re doing together, people that aren’t in the NFT space, can really experience it. I think this is the art of the future, for sure.

Abigail: We are going to be showcasing 11 generative artists. We worked very closely with you on who was going to be included in the show and the curatorial angle of input/output, and the human behind the machine.

Do you want to speak about any of the artists in the show or the kinds of the relationships you’ve built with them over the last two years that have culminated to this point?

AOI: The artists that we’ve chosen for this show follow a journey of people that pioneer the generative art space in the world of Web3. If you look at some of the artists, such as Tyler Hobbs, he is probably one of the artists that really started my art journey. It’s quite amazing. Tyler has a very unique sensibility for what he creates. There’s also a very natural harmony to what he creates. As I said before, it’s “how do you create something that reminisces nature or reminisces human touch using code?”

I think that’s a juxtaposition between human nature and computer-made. I think what makes a work so beautiful is that it’s like fine wine. The more you understand it, the more you appreciate it, and then the more you let it breathe. “Wow – this is made by code and not just brushwork on Photoshop.” 

Abigail: You have a couple physical Tyler Hobbs works (prints) in your collection as well don’t you? 

AOI: I haven’t gotten his physical work yet. There’s one particular [digital] piece that I have.

Abigail: This year [maybe you will get it].

AOI: You know what? I saw the piece. You can print out a physical. I said to [Tyler], it’s one of his only pure black and white pieces. In my research, I was looking at different types of black paints. There’s one that’s registered by Anish Kapoor. That is the world’s blackest black – of course we can’t use that, right? So then I was like, “Okay, what’s the next best option?” There’s a company in Japan, which creates a paint that absorbs 99.6% of the light. So for example, if you painted a drink bottle with that paint and you hid it on a black background, you wouldn’t even see it.

I had a brief discussion with Tyler. I said, “Hey, I found the world’s blackest paint, why don’t we try and create the physical of this piece using this paint.” So, that is the level of collaboration that I really enjoy in particular. It goes back to the same philosophy that we’re really here to help artists in the space.

Another example is Andres Reisinger – I fell in love with this chair that he created. I [told him that] we need to create a short film to showcase your creation process. That [process] took about a year actually, and was finished a few weeks ago. I had totally forgotten about it, until he wrote to me saying, “Hey, the documentary’s done.” And I realised a year had gone past.

Abigail: What do you think is the role of the collector in today’s NFT and digital art ecosystem as a whole?

That’s been the question a lot of people have been throwing around. Should a collector just stay in their lane or what does it look like if everyone has a hand in different things?

AOI: I think as a collector, you should try and help the artists and try pushing the space forward. If you look at the people that were chosen [for the show], we have people from different cultures from all around the world.

I reminisced about this phone call with William [Mapan]. I had a chat with him, he said, “Oh my god, I’m going to meet some of these friends of mine that I’ve actually never met before in real life.” He said, “I know all these guys, they’re all my best friends from the internet, but I’ve never actually met them before in real life.”

I think it’s these real life events and moments where artists meet collectors and collectors meet artists, or even artists meet artists. In essence, In Our Code is probably one of the most beautiful moments ever, because people in the digital space are always online. Your life is in the metaverse or on the internet, and that was part of our name, AOI, or, Art on Internet. I really hope that in the show, these artists will get together and finally meet each other. Finally, they can share a drink together and celebrate what an incredible one and a half years, or the duration of the world of NFTs, that has brought them together.

Abigail: Getting into the end of our podcast, I wanted to ask about the future of AOI.

Can you talk about work you’re doing with mental health and the goals and future for AOI?

AOI: Definitely – I always think about what are the current leading sectors in the world of NFTs. First of all, in the metaverse, how far can technology take us? 

We were the first to release, probably the most high fidelity metaverse museum about a year and a half ago, in collaboration with Tendril Studios. Back at that moment, people were thinking about the metaverse and they were thinking, what is the metaverse? What’s possible?

In our research in the last year and a bit, I’ve been speaking with a few of the pixel streaming companies. Within two years, or even less than two years, that technology will be easily available to everybody. So, for sure the metaverse experience is going to be the next biggest sector.

We’re starting to see Decentralised Finance combined with NFTs, and that’s an element where you can buy a particular piece and then borrow money from it. It’s like instant lending for all your digital art. That’s something that a lot of companies are still tinkering with at the moment, but in the next six months, when you buy an NFT, you’ll be able to borrow money from it that you’ll be able to stake, and lend from it.

Eventually, your NFT will basically pay you probably 5-10% yield off your NFTs, which is crazy. In the art space, which is our big focus, we love working with film to tell stories. We are working on an AOI documentary. I’m still very much enamoured by the original 1 on 1 artists (artists who produce unique original works) that came before generative art, the “Beeples”, the “Paks” – these guys really brought upon change. When Beeple’s pieces sold for that crazy amount of money, that really showed to the world that NFTs are crazy. Even with one of the highest selling artists, Pak, people were still saying that this is a scam.

Our goal with AOI is to show people this is not a scam, this is a movement. Some of the world’s biggest luxury houses, LVMH and Tiffany & Co, are starting partnerships with [Crypto]Punks and Bored Ape Yacht Clubs. It really validates the strength of the community of this space.

I would say in the next six months, the space is going to grow even more. The level of NFT photography in the last six months has taken off and we are going to start seeing NFTs change from still images to videos, to audio, to things that you strap on your VR headset and the NFT evolves during the day or will evolve with the weather or the movement of your body and art that just transcends what’s possible. 

I believe in NFTs for good. The power of NFTs can transform communities. One artwork created by an artist in a very remote location could literally support the whole village’s water ecosystem. Deepak Chopra’s Foundation has an NFT company called Seva.Love. A guy called Poonacha Machaiah is a good friend of mine. Those guys are doing really amazing work, where they partner with some of the leading charities and also some of the leading artists to put their works together and create real impact. I think that to me it is where creativity and technology can come together and really create impact for people in need. I do think that with In Our Code, within the next few shows, we are going to see some really interesting activations where artists and collectors will give back.

If one NFT is perpetually sold with 2.5% royalties. If the artist decides that all the royalties go to charity, that’s 2.5% charity for the rest of the lifetime, with that particular piece of art. That’s super powerful and something that I don’t think has been fully activated yet. When it does, can you imagine a movement where a hundred of the top artists are creating one massive auction every year where all proceeds go to charity and all of the royalties go to charity? It would be the most powerful art-driven charity in the world, for sure. It would generate the most amount of money. So that’s something that we’re super passionate about at AOI.

We’ve got some incredible people working on our team that are working on all of these ideas that I’ve just spoken about. So hopefully, in the next few months, we can share more and showcase all the ideas that we have.

Abigail: We’re super excited to be part of that journey. With the start of the podcast, we’re focusing on the artists within In Our Code, and we’re so thankful for you to be the first guest before we get into our final question.

Could you please highlight the Masterclasses? Because it’s going to be in conjunction with the artists in this show. 

AOI: Every Friday we want to showcase the world of the artist on our Discord. It’s almost like you enter the studio of the artist and it’ll be a small panel, the artist will do a screen share to showcase a little bit of their magic.

I think a lot of people just see art as the end product. When you really get to understand that first of all, how the artist gets to the artwork, and second of all, how you’re next to the artist – an artist is speaking with you, chatting with you about his software, his philosophies, then you can learn from him.

It’s something that’s missing in this space and hopefully through In Our Code, and seeing the artists’ sort of world, you can really find a newfound appreciation for what they do. I think we’re in this space together and it is all about giving back.

I hope in this Masterclass, others can learn about the artists and really help other artists. That’s what this space is about. It’s about growing the next generation of creatives. Hopefully this Masterclass session in studios will really help people.

Abigail: We want to end with three questions and we’re gonna do this for every podcast.

So for these next questions, we just ask for you to answer them either in one word or one sentence. So, the first one is, what inspires you most in this space?

AOI: Probably love for art. You know, when you speak to an artist you fall in love with who they are, their energy, their passion, and their art. I fall in love with art as well. So, it’s love and art. That is what inspires me the most.

Abigail: What is one artist that you would love to own an NFT by, that you have your eyes on right now or in talking to?

AOI: I would probably say an artist called XCOPY. I’ve been watching his work since day one and his prices have just gone up and up, especially some of his earlier works on SuperRare. Some of his 2018 pieces are what really embody the Cyber Punk sort of space of NFT’s. So, it would probably be XCOPY.

Abigail: Our last question is what technological advancements do you think the space needs or what do you think is coming?

AOI: Ethereum is becoming proof of stake very soon, which makes it environmentally friendly.

It’s probably not the technology that’s missing, because the technology is the way it is. It’s probably the experience of NFTs. So I would say that what’s a better way to display NFTs, better ways to buy it, on your mobile, for example, it’s making it more accessible to a broader audience.

I think those are the things that In Our Code is about. How do you make the experience of buying, experiencing, or collecting an NFT worth it? It is more than just a picture on the wall and that’s what NFT’s are about.

It’s really a movement. It’s really a very important part of history, which I think is going to get more and more exciting. You look at a lot of these in real life NFT events that are happening all around the world and, everyone is upping the one that came before it. So, I would say experience is more important than technology.